Justin Sparks - •The Fight for Initiative Petition Reform in Missouri

In this episode of DevTalks Podcast, Devan Daniels interviews Justin Sparks, a state representative from Missouri, who shares his journey from law enforcement to politics. Sparks discusses the challenges he faces in the Missouri legislative process, particularly regarding initiative petition reform and the influence of money in politics. He emphasizes the need for strong conservative leadership that reflects the values of the constituents and the importance of mobilizing citizens to hold their representatives accountable. Sparks also highlights the disconnect between elected officials and the voters they serve, urging for a more decentralized power structure within the legislature.

takeaways

• Justin Sparks transitioned from law enforcement to politics to serve his community.
• The initiative petition reform has failed in Missouri for eight years due to special interests.
• Republican leadership plays a crucial role in determining which legislation gets passed.
• Money influences political power dynamics in the Missouri House.
• Sparks advocates for decentralized power to empower individual representatives.
• The disconnect between representatives and voters is a significant issue in Missouri politics.
• Citizens need to mobilize and hold their representatives accountable.
• Sparks emphasizes the importance of listening to the will of the people.
• The future of the Republican Party in Missouri depends on adhering to conservative values.
• Engagement and communication with representatives are vital for political change.

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Transcript

Devan Daniels: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Dev Talks Podcast. Today, I'm sitting here with Justin Sparks. How are you, Justin? 

Justin Sparks: Doing great. Thanks for having me on, buddy. 

Devan Daniels: Oh, thanks for coming on. Um, before we get started here, uh, will you tell us a little bit about yourself and what's going on with you? 

Justin Sparks: Absolutely. I am state representative for District 110 in Missouri, which is the westernmost part of St.

Louis County, and I have served in the legislature for two years, just got reelected to another term. And before that, I was a police officer. I was a sergeant with the St. Louis County Police for 15 years in St. Louis County. And I ended my career as a deputized U. S. Marshal on the Fugitive Task Force. 

Devan Daniels: Okay, so it's, uh, it's pretty fair to say that crime is something that's pretty near and dear to your heart.

Justin Sparks: Oh, definitely. Crime [00:01:00] prevention, certainly. I'm a father of six kids, been married to my wife for 18 years, Mandy. And, uh, you know, to give our Our community, our neighborhoods, and our state to the next generation, obviously, motivates everything that I do, which is kind of what brings us here today. 

Devan Daniels: So, um, what, whenever you first decided to throw your, your hat in the ring for representative, uh, what, what was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, on making you run for rep?

Justin Sparks: Yeah, that's a great question, because it factors into kind of this unorthodox run for the Speaker of the House that I'm doing now. When I was a police officer, I really felt called into that profession. Um, I'm a believer. I spend time praying. Um, as much as I can and I should pray even more, as we all should.

And I believe that the Lord called me out of law enforcement and into running for office. I literally [00:02:00] woke up one day and felt that the Lord said, You're going to run for office, which was really strange, because that's not something I ever anticipated doing. I told my wife, Mandy, what I believed, what I had heard, and she laughed, you know.

And, uh, so we just decided to take a step of faith. We told my immediate family and a couple other people, and, uh, we prayed about it. And nothing really happened for six months, and I just, you know, figured maybe that was just some weird pizza I ate the day before, you know. You know, it's just me. But after that six months went by, and I had kind of just moved on with my life, uh, one of those people that I had originally said I'm going to run for office contacted 

me.

Justin Sparks: And said, strangely, you are in a district, District 110 had been redrawn, and then the representative that was currently had run and won his primary was actually stepping down, uh, for personal reasons. And there was going to be an opening for the general election, would I like to be considered by the Central [00:03:00] Committee.

And he said, you have about 24 hours to decide. And I took all those 24 hours praying about it and decided I'm not going to do this because I don't think this is the timer. This isn't the opportunity God had in mind. I think I think it was more like, uh, you know, I thought God was going to give me like the governorship where you can make some real money instead of the 36, 000 a year.

I'm going to try to provide for six kids, you know, And, uh, I'm, I'm joking, obviously. And so, but every time I try to pick up that phone and call and tell him, no, I'm not going to do it. I couldn't, I couldn't, I just couldn't. And so, finally, I talked to Mandy and I said, you know, I feel like I'm supposed to do this.

And when I made that decision, I had a complete peace about it. Picked up the phone, said, yes, I will, I will drop my name in the hat to be considered. The, and the central committee, uh, selected me after a debate with some other candidates. And sure enough, 60 days later, I run for office, and I got elected.

And it's been a wild ride, because going from law [00:04:00] enforcement into politics, I brought a different perspective, not just from fighting crime, you know, and trying to protect our community, but really looking at an organization like the Missouri House of Representatives and wondering why priority legislation from the Republican Party doesn't get passed every single year.

Why? Initiative petition reform, for example, is the number one platform priority for eight years in a row has failed. And yet, other states like Tennessee, Oklahoma, Arkansas, they passed up good Republican legislation, good conservative legislation all the time. And yet, in Missouri, we don't. And now, the straw that kind of broke the camel's back for me Yeah, go ahead.

Devan Daniels: No, I was just gonna say it is kind of weird. You know, we're in ruby red Missouri with a super majority. Yet I P reform hasn't been able to get out of the house for the past. What do you say? 78 years, eight years. 

Justin Sparks: And you know, it's strange because [00:05:00] even though that's the number one platform priority, the Republican Party, it fails every year.

And the real reason my short time in the Missouri House, the reason is Republican leadership. makes sure that it dies. So, for example, we were able to pass initiative petition reform last year out of the House and get it to the Senate. Um, and yet, when it got to the Senate, my, uh, fellow colleagues in the Freedom Caucus started filibustering and basically leadership in the Missouri Senate said, okay, we'll make a deal with you.

We will use the previous question mechanism, which is basically, uh, It's a motion to shut down debate and bring up initiative petition, finally, after eight years, to finally pass on the last day of session. And so, my colleague stopped filibustering, allowed the other bills to go through, and then on the last day, the bill handler that the Republican [00:06:00] leadership had chose on purpose, Senator Mary Elizabeth Coleman, she took the motion, the previous question motion, which the Senators had signed, And instead of making the motion on the floor to bring up the previous question and shut down debate, instead, she made a motion to go to conference, which effectively killed the bill because that was the end of session.

And so, yet again, the number one platform priority failed. And for your listeners that don't know what Initiative Petition Reform is, it's the way that we do it. can stop our Constitution from being manipulated. So very power, you would ask, why would this number one priority fail for eight years in a row?

Well, it's because very well funded special interests don't want it to pass. They want to keep our Constitution open to being manipulated. If you look at a copy of our Constitution versus the U. S. Constitution, the U. S. Constitution is a little booklet, little, tiny little thing. Ours [00:07:00] is a full book. It's one of the largest constitutions in the entire country Because very well funded interests have discovered that they can just pour millions of dollars into an ad campaign and basically get a lot of people to gather a lot of signatures and then put a question on the ballot that only people see 50 words of.

It's called ballot candy. And then the ballot candy says something like you want to protect women's health, like Amendment 3.

Devan Daniels: Okay, gotcha back. Sorry. Continue, I'm sorry. 

Justin Sparks: Okay, no problem. So, these very powerful special interests see that they can pour millions of dollars into Missouri into a deceptive ad campaign telling women that, uh, you know, Amendment 3 is about ectopic pregnancies and in vitro fertilization or that women are going to die on operating room tables.

And none of that is true. None of that is accurate. And yet, that's all they see on the ballot, is just 50 words. And so, they're able to enshrine into our [00:08:00] Constitution, making Missouri the most pro abortion state in the entire country. And here we are, super majorities of Republicans in the House and the Senate, with all statewide elected offices.

And so, yeah, that, that must change, and that's part of the reason I'm running for Speaker of the House. 

Devan Daniels: Well, uh, Justin, that brings me to my next point, um, this IP reform that hasn't been able to get passed yet, without it, it is a way for good leftist legislation to get passed in a ruby red state like Missouri.

So, like you were saying, there's got to be a bunch of dark money out there funding this to make sure it never passes. What can we do as citizens to hold our legislators accountable for this and say, hey, we are conservative Missouri. We want good conservative legislation passed. 

Justin Sparks: Well, the key, it's very simple.

There's a lot of legislators that vote for initiative petition, but it's Republican leadership that killed it. So, the [00:09:00] most important thing that folks can do is make sure that Republican leadership that reflects our Republican platform and our ideals is selected. Here's what I mean by that. John Patterson right now is considered the speaker elect because he was selected in an informal, uh, caucus vote over a year ago in April of 2023.

Now, John has a very liberal voting record. He is, uh, his conservative scores are very poor. And he's clearly very moderate. John voted against the SAFE Act, which prohibits transgender surgeries on minors, okay? And he was one of the only Republicans to do that, and he was the only Republican that voted against initiative petition reform.

Now, the point is, if this person is going to be the most powerful person in the Missouri House, he is going to have all of the power to control legislation and kill good legislation. [00:10:00] And that's really what I've discovered in the two years in the House. All of the representatives, none of them are as important as leadership.

The floor majority leader and the Speaker of the House, and on the House side, and in the Senate, it's the floor majority leader and the Senate President. Those four people control all legislation in the state of Missouri. So, When you say, how do these things happen? Why don't these priorities get passed?

It's because Republican leadership makes it so they don't pass. And that's unfortunately the conversation that we have to start to have. And you'd ask me, okay, well why in the world would you ever select John Patterson to be the floor majority leader first and then the Speaker of the House? And the answer to that is he was selected through a process of, by the House Republican Campaign Committee, HRCC, identifies certain members that they can funnel special interest money to, and then, in this case, John Patterson turns around and contributes [00:11:00] that money to the HRCC, the House Republican Campaign Committee, and they spend it on consultants during campaign season.

And in return, John Patterson gets to be the floor majority leader and then he becomes the Speaker of the House after that. And it's not, it's, it's, it's not that explicitly connected, but it is. Whoever gives the most money to HRCC, and you can see this by looking up the publicly available MEC reports, whoever gives the most money to HRCC becomes the floor leader and then becomes the Speaker of the House.

And that is how the system of selecting, yeah. Well, and, and so people have asked me, like, is that pay to play? Like, for example, when I got down to Jefferson City. Two years ago, I was given an envelope with a card in it, all the Republicans 

were, 

Justin Sparks: and on my card was a dollar amount, 20, 000. And I said, what is this?

And they said, this is the amount that you're expected and going to have to donate to the House Republican Campaign Committee in order to be considered for a powerful committee position or a [00:12:00] chairmanship. And I said, what happens if I don't give it? They're like, well then you won't be assigned any powerful chairmanship and you certainly won't be considered for leadership.

And You see, Devin, what they were trying to do is seeing who would go along with this scheme of taking campaign money, donations, and giving it to the House Republican Campaign Committee where they will spend it how they see fit, without any accountability from myself, and they get to spend it on the races and the people and the causes that they see fit.

And I just wouldn't go along with it. See, because they want to find out who is Well, so you're going to show to the HRCC 

Devan Daniels: that you would have no say of where that money goes, correct? 

Justin Sparks: That's right. Exactly. So, you know, once they figure out who is going to go along with this, and I want to make this explicitly clear.

Not everybody that gives money to the HRCC is corrupt. Not everybody gives money in exchange for consideration [00:13:00] for a chairmanship or leadership. But some definitely do. Thank you. 100 percent this does happen. And so, you gotta ask yourself, you know, this, there is an, in some cases, there is an explicit exchange for do you want to be on a chairmanship?

Yes I do. Well then how much money have you given to the HRCC? And that explicit exchange of money for power, because being the chairman of a committee is power. Because you can kill legislation or you can pass legislation that affects real people that could become law. That explicit exchange is what really is, I think, dangerous.

I think that it's a corrupting influence and it's what I want to try to get rid of. And it's been what I've been trying to kind of reform for two years. 

Devan Daniels: With the Speaker of the House, the power they have, shouldn't that be more decentralized back to the representatives? 

Justin Sparks: So that's really, that's [00:14:00] really the plan on how to fix the system, right?

So, for example, the reason you have to run for Speaker of the House like I am right now, which is an unconventional way to run, right? Because, uh, typically I would have ran against John back in April of 2023, but at that time, I He hadn't shown, um, a propensity to block legislation. So even though he voted against the Safe Act like we talked about, he didn't block that legislation.

So we were able to still get it passed. Well af after he got the nod to become the speaker, he showed a willingness to block legislation. He blocked Second Amendment legislation after the Kansas City, uh, chiefs Super Bowl celebration, shooting. And so he blocked Second Amendment legislation after that and he blocked, uh, eight house joint resolution 1 31.

So. We knew that Amendment 3 was coming, and we had two major strategies to defeat it. Both, by the way, we now have been proven would have worked. The first was initiative petition reform with concurrent majority. Five of [00:15:00] eight congressional districts would have to agree, through a majority vote of the people, to change our Constitution.

That was number one. And by the way, we've seen that if that would have passed, Amendment 3 would have failed. And House Joint Resolution 131, which is what I, uh, I, I filed that, um, basically to put a competing question on the ballot. So you would have had a pro abortion Amendment 3 question and you would have had a pro life Amendment 4.

And whoever, whichever one got more votes would be the one that passed. And polling showed that Amendment 4 for pro life would have passed. easily defeated Amendment 3. And so I went to John and I said, Hey, this is our strategy. Because, um, believe it or not, they tried this strategy in the state of Nebraska and they were successful and their version of Amendment 3 failed.

And so I told John that this was what we wanted to do and he said, I can't support that. And I said, I, I understand that you can't support it. I just don't want you to block it. And so he said, well, I just can't support that. So I went around and I started getting [00:16:00] signatures from my colleagues. to compel John to bring it to the floor because he was in effect blocking it.

And he told that member, my colleague, to not gather any more signatures. And that member complied. And then another member, uh, told John, I want to speak about this in our private caucus meetings because this is a priority for the Republican Party. And John told that member, you will not even speak about this or there will be consequences.

And that's, that member complied. And he's able to do this because he had the nod to be the speaker. He was the speaker elect informally. And so now he had all this power that he could wield over these members and tell them what to do. And they would comply because the consequences are so dire. And so, we were not successful in getting H.

J. R. 131 on the ballot. And as a result, Amendment 3 passed. And when John made, made comments about, well, this, you know, Amendment 3 if it [00:17:00] passes will be the law of the land and will respect the will of the voters. 

Devan Daniels: Sounds good. I, I knew right 

Justin Sparks: then that he was not going to address or dismantle Amendment 3, which is what my constituents want and what the majority of Missourians want.

Amendment 3 only passed by 48, 000 votes, 51. 7%. You know, if the other side, if Amendment 3 had failed, Yeah, exactly. Primarily in the St. Louis area, the Kansas City area, the Columbia area, and the counties surrounding. That's primarily where most of those votes happen. That's why we need to obviously reform the initiative petition process to get a broad representation from all of Missourians before we, before we change our Constitution.

And so, we were not successful and now we have a brief moment in the next couple of years before the next ballot. Before we go back to the voters, where, if we, if we don't do anything, then real people are going to die. Babies are going to die as the result of abortion. And, and most people think, you know, [00:18:00] oh, they talk about abortion as an academic exercise in policy.

You know, abortion is not just about policy. Abortion is people. Abortion is about real lives. And, um, and I believe that our state will be judged on what we do to protect the unborn. And so And that is why one of the main reasons I jumped into running against John at such a late point in order to give a conservative alternative on January 8th to somebody that has demonstrated the willingness to block conservative legislation.

That's what this is all about. This is all about we need to select and elect Republican leadership that follows the Republican platform. That's it. Simple. And if we do that Then we will not have to deal with things like Amendment three being in our Constitution because Republican leadership would have would have and could have and should have stopped [00:19:00] Amendment three from ever happening to begin with.

Devan Daniels: Well, like we were just like you were just talking about your run for speaker is very unconventional kind of turn over the apple cart, so to speak. Um, it doesn't really do you any favors in the house, uh, but you feel so strongly about this that you kind of had to take on this fight. Um, the informal vote that they had for John Patterson for Speaker of the House, this was done with previous reps that are, some might not be there come January 8th, correct?

Justin Sparks: Right. That's correct. Yeah, you, you have to ask yourself, why do we select the, the, the most powerful person in the house that controls all the legislation? Right. Yeah. Over a year in advance without the freshman legislators that were just elected on November 5th, you know, after November 5th, when everybody goes through their election, we all go to Jefferson City on November 6th, and we elect all the other leadership positions in the house, except for the speaker.

Because the speaker is the most important one. We do that one a year in advance. And the reason for [00:20:00] that, one of the reasons, is because all of these reps, these freshman reps that just got elected, they just got done knocking on thousands of doors telling people that they would represent them. Telling them that they would do what they said and promised to do.

You know, truth, justice, and the American way, right? And now, those freshman reps are going to be expected to go in on January 8th and support John Patterson. 

Who 

Justin Sparks: doesn't reflect the majority of their values or the majority of the values of Missouri. And that's very hard, right? But two years ago, when I was elected and got sworn in, I didn't think there was an option.

They didn't tell, they didn't tell me that there was an option or that there was a different choice. They just said go into the chamber and support the new Speaker of the House. But see, we do have a choice. We don't have to settle for the leadership that is, that is selected for us, that is essentially moderate to liberal, who has shown a willingness to [00:21:00] block our priorities.

We don't have to take that anymore. And yes, it does take somebody like myself, basically putting it all on the line, and committing possible, you know, political suicide. That's what they tell me. In order to do what it is the people want. And Devin, here's the thing, I don't serve the party. I serve the people.

I don't serve, you know, they say you're hurting the Republican Party. For heaven's sakes, man, I don't serve the party. The Republican Party is the framework. It's the guiding framework that we organize ourselves under. But I don't serve the party, I serve the people. And so do all the representatives and I think that they probably need to be reminded of that 

Devan Daniels: And I agree with you justin and that's the thing It seems like once they get up there, they say a lot of good things the campaign candy Like you speak when they get in there Um, a lot of them just don't have the spine to stand up and do what's right And I think the voters need to remind these people that you are up there for us.[00:22:00] 

We want good conservative Legislation passed whatever however that may happen What can people do? to kind of put pressure on their representatives to support you. 

Justin Sparks: Well, I, I like to remember, I like to remind people that you get more flies with honey than you do vinegar. So even though when people hear my story and they hear like, why, why, why we should be doing things differently and electing conservative leadership, it fires people up and people get angry.

And what I would remind you is many of these representatives that have been there for a long time, and even the new ones, they just, they are told repeatedly that this is the way it is. That you can't change it. The system is too powerful. And if you try, then you're not going to be able to do anything for your people.

You're not going to be able to get anything passed for your constituents. And you'll just be a big waste of space and you'll be wasting your time. And that's what they're told. And so what they really need to hear from you is that you'll [00:23:00] support them. That you want them, that you will have their back.

You will lift their arms up and you won't let them get targeted. And by the way, remind them respectfully. That they don't serve the Republican leadership, they serve the people. And they should be listening to the people, not the, the politicos and the Republican leadership in Jefferson City that's trying to tell them what to do.

Because, I'll be honest with you, the Republican leadership in Jefferson City has their own agenda. They've got their own special interests that they're beholden to, clearly. And those special interests don't want any of our platform priorities to get done, do they? Otherwise, they'd be done. Because, you know, the dirty little secret is We've got all the power in Jefferson City.

Democrats can't do anything. And if we wanted to get stuff done, it gets done in a week. Trust me, I've seen it. If we make something a priority in the Republican House and Senate, it gets done in no time at all. And we can do those things. Those priority bills that get done in a week, they should be the Republican [00:24:00] platform priority, not the priorities of special interest in Jefferson City.

And that's what's being done right now. 

Devan Daniels: So how's it looking within the House? Do you look like you're getting pretty good support? 

Justin Sparks: I've got a support of a small remnant of reps that really will not back down regardless. They are supporting me no matter what. And then there's a much larger group that wants to support me, agrees with me, agrees with everything I'm saying, but they don't think that I can win and they don't want to put their necks on the line because they don't want to be punished.

They don't want to be on the losing side. Um, that's a much bigger group. And so what we're trying to do is get the support we need. to really be the voice of the people again. Because right now you have this huge distinction, this huge discrepancy between the people and what they want. And they want Justin Sparks to be the speaker of the house.

And then on the other side, you got the representatives and they're not listening. The [00:25:00] representatives are not listening to the people right now because they're just not strong enough. They're just too afraid. They just think that it's impossible for me to win. And we just need those representatives to understand that We can win and you can't win if you don't try.

Our enemies best weapon against us is convincing us not to fight back in the first place. That's why somebody has not done what I'm doing. That's right, exactly. And that's why, you know, that's why somebody like me hasn't risen before. Because it takes somebody that realizes and counts the cost and understands the risk and just doesn't care.

I just don't care if they take my office away. I just don't care if they target me or punish me. Because I'm not there for them. I'm there for the people. And we have to start doing what it is the people want us to do. Or what good are we, right? What good are we if we're just up there with representative behind our name, but we're not passing any of the priority legislation that people [00:26:00] want?

And what that will eventually lead to is we will lose the confidence of the voters. Because they will see that we're just a uniparty. Whether you're Democrats or Republicans, you don't do what you're going to say you're going to do. You're just beholden to special interests and passing those crappy, swampy bills.

This is happening in Washington, D. C. right now, in our own Congress. The same exact thing. Where, where President Trump has come in as a reformer to cut government waste and spending, and then you've got a Congress and a Speaker of the House, for heaven's sakes, that is proposing a continuing resolution budget that adds billions of dollars to our federal deficit.

What are we doing? This Are we not listening to the v the voters? Because the voters just told, the American people just told the government what they want. Missourians have told repeatedly what they want out of their government, so why aren't we listening to them 

Devan Daniels: and the American people? I think this is a very important topic to hit on, is we gave the Republican Party a mandate, and if that mandate [00:27:00] is not followed, I fear for what could happen in later elections.

Justin Sparks: I do too. You know, the House Republican campaign committee during our Winter caucus meeting was patting themselves on the back. And taking credit for all the Republicans being voted and elected and sent back to the Missouri House. And I laughed. I thought it was a joke because, let's be honest, those guys got elected again because Donald J.

Trump's name was on the ballot. And people truly believe that the end of our Constitutional Republic was near. And they're not wrong. Our Constitutional Republic is hanging by a thread right now. And we need good, strong Republicans. people that will listen to the will of the people and the Republican platform priorities and do what it is we said we're going to do.

And if not, there's not going to be another Donald Trump on the ballot. And I do fear that Republicans are going to lose the support of the people are not going to get elected again. 

Devan Daniels: And God help us if the Democrats take over. 

Justin Sparks: I know [00:28:00] exactly. 

Devan Daniels: Well, Justin, thank you for taking your time. I know you're busy.

Is there anything else you want to say to the to the Missourian people right now? 

Justin Sparks: No, I just want you to keep up the good work man, get the voice and get the message out. And let the people know they do have a voice. Let the people know they're not alone. I travel all across the state and the message is the same.

The people want a voice, they want their voice to be heard, and they want their representatives to listen to them. So reach out to your representative, ask them to support me, and do it respectfully and tell them you'll have their back. 

Devan Daniels: Amen to that, sir. Uh, thank you for taking the time to come on here and talk to me.

I'm just an old redneck from southern Missouri, so I really appreciate it. 

Justin Sparks: God bless you, brother. 

Devan Daniels: God bless you. And you guys have a Merry Christmas. 

Justin Sparks: Merry [00:29:00] Christmas.